June 16, 2008
Heather just wrote what I think is a pretty brilliant comparison of Chilean and gringo cultures when it comes to friendships. Her post is called, “Good advice, develop your people filter.” Aside from one remark she makes about worrying whether people might steal her stuff, I’ve pretty much had similar feelings and realizations to everything in her article.
Chileans, to me, are much harder to read than gringos.
On multiple occasions I’ve thought that a Chilean woman seems cool and would be fun to hang out with. Then we’ve done the phone number exchange and I’ve called only to get blown off or burned if we make actual plans.
After years of trying to ingratiate myself with S.’s friends girlfriends, after one particularly fun night I really felt I was making progress and that they had totally accepted me as one of the group. Then later that same week I found out that they had all went out together and hadn’t invited me.
It got to the point that I was so nervous about actually trying to make a Chilena friend that when I met a cool girl at a party 6 months ago I didn’t even want to ask her for her phone number. I made S. do it, and at first she was put off because she thought a married man was trying to get himself a little somethin’ somethin’ on the side.
S. got her phone number, she added me on facebook the next day and we made plans via The Wall to go out. On the big day that I went to meet up with her I was very nervous. I spent forever trying to choose an outfit that didn’t scream, “loser trying to hard to make friends!” Although that fact that I did spend forever on picking it out means I was a loser trying to hard to make friends, but I didn’t want to give off that vibe. 
I arrived at the given meeting point and she didn’t show up. I started freaking out. I called S. in tears, “This is the LAST time I EVER talk to a Chilean woman again. I hate them all!”
I thought I had been burned once again.
Yet, for some reason, I didn’t leave (which, again, shows how desperate I really was to have one nice female Chilean in my life). After waiting for a half an hour I was packing up to go home when she showed up, frantically apologizing — she was stuck in a meeting and hadn’t been able to call.
Now that same woman is one of my good friends. She’s been nothing but loyal and amazing….just how she seemed from the get go. But, I strongly feel that she’s the exception to the rule. Not that there aren’t loyal and amazing Chilenas out there, because there are. It’s just way harder to find them because things aren’t as they seem here. People often come across as really friendly and open, they’ll say, “Yeah, let’s hang out!” and then later on you find out that they have zero desire to form any kind of relationship with you.
This girl was different because what you see is what you get with her.
Is it because appearances are so important in Chile that you must act like the nicest person in the world even if you plan on crushing their hopes and feelings quietly and discretely later on…just so as not to appear like you’re a mean person?
This isn’t about what’s better or what’s worse. It’s just about differences in cultures, which is a major impediment when it comes to making friends in this culture. In the U.S., what you see is usually what you get. If a gringo acts like a rude asshole, he is a rude asshole. If a gringo acts like he wants to be your friend, he does want to be your friend.
In my gringa eyes, because that’s the system I’ve grown up with and know how to work my way around in, that way of relating to people seems much simpler.
In Chile, the rules are different. In general you’re expected to act like you want to be everyone’s friend, and never be a rude asshole in public. Only time will tell a person’s true intentions.
Chileans are used to this system, which is why, as my husband puts it, “We trust no one.”
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- If you don't try and keep up, you just sound like yourself, which should sound like the moment. ~Grace Jones.
- I have no competition and no rivals. Everybody's got their own pace, their own trip. I don't try to keep up. ~Grace Jones, cont'd.
- @inosherry, I can't say I am very wizzardy but I can certainly try!
- 4am and I'm not tired. But 7:30am is going to come quick. At least I got lots of editing done!
- @markdubya, it might be 2010 but we're definitely still in Michigan. Speaking of. I'm here. Let's hang!
- Planning a baby shower for my future sister in law. This is definitely NOT my forte.
I’ve had a few experiences like that with gringas, but you’re probably right about the cultural differences. Girls here will think nothing of being rude, but can also be very nice.
P.S. I got my hair cut again and it’s shorter than yours now. One of these days I’ll post or send a picture.
Comment by Ordinary Girl — June 16, 2008 @ 4:50 pm
I have to say this was totally not the post I needed today as I am having a people-don’t-respect-and-put-time-and-care-into-friendships day that is making me lost hope in humanity. Specifically being disappointed in a chilean female who has been close to my best friend for move the a decade because I am getting really tired of a one sided friendship.
That said, chilenas aren´t always great friends to each other either. There is cometition and jealousy that I am not used to back home. And while it is true that it is difficult to create male-female nonsexual friendships here, for me they have been really rewarding… granted, I had to get them to think of me as a sister.
Comment by Clare — June 16, 2008 @ 7:44 pm
That would be tough. I like to know what I am getting myself into right off the bat and I have a hard time trusting people anyway. It is an interesting difference, though. (said the gringa, safely stowed away in gringolandia)
Comment by Rachel — June 16, 2008 @ 7:45 pm
It’s been a long time since last and I want to congratulate you for the beautiful picture.
What you talk about is not exclusive to women. I’ve invited people to dinner and they have not show up and what is worse they have not called either.
I do not think it is about being mean, but irresponsible. Not to get involved with things is one of the worst sides of my peple.
Now let me be a little critical: you sound like the typical immigrant “in my country everything was better”. Are you sure all people in the U.S. show them selves like they are?
Please don’t take my comment badly. It is fun to see your blog and your photos gain.
Comment by bad — June 16, 2008 @ 11:29 pm
Arent americans famous for being over the top friendly? Which to some can come across as insincere?
I totally disagree with you, I dont think it could be particularly a chilean thing, the same sort of things have happened to me in Spain and in London. I think as a foreigner without any friends, or without belonging to a group of friends we are like, “OK right i am here, befriend me” You have all the time in the world, no friends and therefor you will generally make friends with any nice person that comes your way. The “locals” already have their own group of friends, probably still the same ones from high school/uni, and although they are friendly when meeting them, to accept you into their life is a big thing, they have to have room in their life for a new friend, especially for one that could be hard work as they dont have any friends themselves. They have to be on the lookout for a friend too/or for something you can offer them. For example, “locals” may often squeeze you into their lives cause they want a foreign friend. They like having a friend who can speak english etc. But again, the have to WANT a friend too. I dont believe in the romantic notion that people will want to befriend you cause you are a nice person, you cant make friends with everyone and people need to have the room in your life to do so.
Maybe when you exchange numbers with someone at a party, you think yay, cool, but maybe when it comes to the crunch and the person thinks about it, the cant be bothered making the effort and dont feel like they have more room, socially or emotionally for another friends. Getting to know someone can be hard work sometimes so its gotta be worth it! Easy for you, you´ve got all the time in the worl and all the emotional space in the world to give it a go cause you´re friendsless!
Think of when you lived back home, unless you changed jobs/schools, how many NEW friends did you often make. My bet is not a whole lot.
Comment by Kristy — June 17, 2008 @ 5:08 am
It´s definitely a cultural thing, as you already know. I have had similar problems too, although I commend you for having the guts to try to get peoples numbers and so forth. I am shy when it comes to that and I know that part of the reason I don´t have a lot of Spanish girlfriends has been from ME not taking the first step (none of them have ever done it either). So, aside from girlfriends/wives of my husbands friends, that we only see when we are with our partners, I don´t mix much with Spanish women solo. For me, befriending an American is just so EASY. Maybe this is what defines prejudice, but I can tell rather quickly if the person is someone I want to hang out with. And if they are, I´m never too shy to go forward with a friendship with American women. With Spanish women it just seems like a huge chore to discover if we have anything at all in common.
Comment by Bluestreak — June 17, 2008 @ 6:56 am
I understand this completely! I honestly have about 2 chilenas as trusted friends. The rest of them are fake to me. Most of them are Rorro’s friends girlfriends. They act all cool when we are hanging out and then they make plans to do something and it never happens. I am so not used to being friendless. I to stay in my room picking out clothes for way to long just to look cool enough to be someone’s friend. Back in MN I could usually make a friend wherever I went, here its much more difficult. I think that is what I miss the most, having friends that I can actually count on being there when I needed them and when I didn’t.
Comment by Shannon — June 17, 2008 @ 9:18 am
O.G. send picture! I want to see!!!
Clare, sorry you’re having a down day. I totally agree with what you say about them not being great friends to each other either. maybe I wasn’t clear enough but I was referring to Chilean-Gringa and Chilean-Chilean friendships too!
Rachel, if you have a hard time trusting people you’ll fit right in here, so ummm, move to Chile?
Bad, you must not have read the whole post, perhaps skimming over the part where I specifically said,
“This isn’t about what’s better or what’s worse. It’s just about differences in cultures.”
Kristy, how can you disagree with me about Chilean culture? Hahaha, come here, try it out and then see what you say! Chileans are known for being a “closed” culture.
In the U.S. I moved around frequently (18 times before I turned 18 and I don’t even want to start counting after college) and never had a problem making friends. Because of the cultural cues it was easier in my own country for me to read people and know who I wanted to be friends with and who I didn’t, and it was generally very easy to tell if they felt the same way. As an adult working in an adult job, I had always heard it was hard to make friends, but I honestly didn’t have any problems in the only “real” job I’ve ever worked, haha! We played on a soccer team together after work, and I’m still in touch with almost everybody 3 years later. Here I’ve made ten times the effort, with very little progress, aside from the one girl who I LOVE.
Bluestreak, ditto to everything you said.
Shannon, give yourself time! Making friends is really hard, but it will eventually happen…
Comment by Mamacita Chilena — June 17, 2008 @ 9:38 am
Sorry! of course I cant comment on Chilean culture Ive never even been there!
I meant that I think making friends with the locals when you´re a foreigner is a worldwide thing/problem, not just in Chile. Its hard when you are friendless and those around you already have their tried and trusted groups.
Comment by Kristy — June 17, 2008 @ 9:50 am
“This isn’t about what’s better or what’s worse. It’s just about differences in cultures.”
this is true!
im a chilean girl and i thought that american women are really cold when we talk about “friendship”… i know that not all american women are cold… but i think its the same way that you or other girls from States can think about Chilean people… our culture..our way of talk, and more its different..
…will be a day in our lifes…where some of you can find a real chilean friend… and a day where i can find my real gringa friend too..
i like your blog..
and also what you wrote about la crema lechuga…was so funny! haha
besos!
Comment by Valentina — June 17, 2008 @ 11:31 am
I think the problem is that when you are a foreigner at the beginning your people-filter is not working properly:
-At home when you meet someone you take your time to be friends ( because meanwhile you are bussy with your own friends so you are not in a hurry) But as a foreigner you are keen to make friends as soon as posssible so you take more risks with people and sometimes you get dissapointed.
-Back home you know all those hiden invisible cultural rules, you know how to read people so you know when someone could have potential to be a good friend or if someone is only been polite.As a foreigner you have to learn these rules and that takes time.
- When you are a gringo(a) in Chile you call the attention of many people just because of the novelty. My husband is british and I see how many people is nice to him just because they want to practice their english with him but not because they are truly interested in getting to know him as a person.
- And finally I am chilean and for me takes ages to trust someone, wich is good because I never get dissapointed with my friends.But also is bad beacuse I am slow to make new friends. Some years ago I went to live to London and when I came back here I even had difficulties to recover my old friends because when I left they were all just married, now they all have children in school age so their new friends are the parents of the children’s classmates.At the moment I just have 2 new friends in almost 4 years living here again. Claudia
Comment by Anonymous — June 17, 2008 @ 11:37 am
Thanks for the pump. Although learning the ropes of Chilean friendships can be upsetting-like when you crash and burn, I’m glad my entry resonates with you and Clare, because I would say that the people filter was one of the most fundamental things I’ve learned here, with blood, sweat and tears. Hehe.
Comment by Maeskizzle — June 17, 2008 @ 12:29 pm
I completely agree with your post! I just arrived to Chile, and have actually not had a problem making friends, but this is for two reasons. 1) All of my friends are guys, or older women who want to speak english and/or treat me like a daughter and 2) Most of my friends are not Chilean, but Mexican, Venezuelan, etc. I have the fortunate position of working in a lab with people who are very likely to have my interests. However, while the women are very nice to me, and absolutely are willing to help me out if it doesn´t inconvenience them, I can tell they would never expect to be friends with me. I had the unfortunate experience of having an overly bad childhood experience with backstabbing friends, and so feel I developed this sensor in the U.S. as well, even thought once I got to college it wasn´t necessary anymore.
I don´t hold it against my chilena co workers that they don´t want to take me out. I understand people have their own lives, and not a lot of time, like Kristy said. But Kristy, the whole Depserate Housewives, I´ll stab you in the back kind of thing isn´t hard to notice in the U.S. because those people always are talking badly about someone. They have no interest in hiding it, and it becomes part of their personality, so even if they´re very nice to you, you know right away what kind of person they are. Here, Chileans are guarded about what they say and how it could be taken much more than people are in the U.S. People find me hilarious because I´m very blunt and not politically correct, which is opposite of most Chilean people. But this is funny to them because I´m a gringa, and I´m sure it makes them not want to trust me, even if they join in on the jokes.
I have managed to make a few friends even in just a few weeks who now take me out almost every night and obviously trust me quite a good deal. They are all men. They are men who regardless of the fact that I have a boyfriend try very hard to woo me into their arms. It´s just like Heather said, it´s not like in the U.S., althought I def. had that happen in New York a time or three. But I´m not offended by this either, because it´s just the male latin culture. The fact that they always treat me as a sexual being doesn´t make me feel any less close to them. At least they´re honest, unlike most American guys.
I guess I agree with Kyle. It´s very different, but I so far haven´t seen it as bad or good. I don´t mind having to complain about my bad eyebrow wax and my boyfriend´s quirks to my guy friends while I´m in search of a good girl one. It´s just different.
Comment by Jessi — June 17, 2008 @ 12:52 pm
Kristy, no, of course you’re right that making friends as an expat (or even just an adult) is hard. I guess I didn’t clearly explain my point…I was trying to explain more of the cultural subtleties in Chile which are bigs parts of the reason that making friends is so hard. But, another part of the that, like you said, is just that making friends anywhere is never easy!
Valentina, you should come coach me on how to make Chilena friends and I’ll coach you on how to make gringa friends, hahaha
it would be the perfect exchange! Your English is great, by the way.
Claudia, I really enjoyed reading your comment, it was very insightful….you hit the nail on the head with everything, about taking more risks as a foreigner and getting let down more, and about hidden invisible cultural rules. Only problem for me is that I’m not at the beginning!…I’ve been here 3 years but I guess my people filter is slow to develop. I’ve always been trusting to a fault.
Heather, teach me! Haha, I’m definitely still learning
Comment by Mamacita Chilena — June 17, 2008 @ 12:55 pm
Piú giú , in fondo alla Tuscolana…
!?…passavo per un saluto!
Comment by ROSA E OLIVIER — June 17, 2008 @ 2:17 pm
Sorry maybe I did not understand everything, my english is very basic. But you said: “ In the U.S., what you see is usually what you get. If a gringo acts like a rude asshole, he is a rude asshole. If a gringo acts like he wants to be your friend, he does want to be your friend” and I am sure a peruan or a frenchman will say the same about their fellow countrymen. But things are not that simple.
I am very critical to my people and many times I have been sad going through all this things you talk about since I came back to Chile. But it seems to me you belive americans are more real and honest than others, and that is like saying they are better.
Comment by bad — June 17, 2008 @ 3:30 pm
Good lord, I’d never make it there. I have a hard time making friends HERE (but that’s partly my fault — I’m picky about who I want to spend my time with). But the cultural thing is really interesting — I never thought about that.
Comment by kgseymour — June 17, 2008 @ 3:30 pm
I (like Kyle, ha! cause I’m her mom) have moved around alot in my life too. 24 times by the age of 24 and a few more after that.
From my experience I would say it takes a good 2 years to establish yourself anywhere in the world, start to feel at home and find a few friends (foreign culture or not).
Having lived in Colombia for six months at the age of 16 gave me alot of cultural awareness which just sticks with a person for the rest of their lives.
As an adult with a lot of experience in international business I have many opportunities to interact with foreigners who come to the states for both short term visits and long term stays.
Because of my background I tend to reach out to them much more than my counterparts who don’t have that sensitivity. I totally agree with Kristi that it is difficult to make the time to fit someone new in your life and it does take extra effort. But what I’ve found is that it really doesn’t take much. You reach out, you go out to lunch, you invite them to your house once or twice and that’s all they need. Half of needing people is just knowing that someone is there in case you need them. The actual time that you end up interacting might not be that great but people appreciate just knowing that you could be someone to call on just in case and I think that that little bit makes them feel more at home in a foreign country.
Anyway, I have met amazing people from around the world and the best part is that I know if/when I ever travel to their countries’ they would reciprocate and go out of their way to make me feel as at home in their countries as I try to make them in mine.
Freindships are difficult, but worth it.
Comment by Ritamae — June 17, 2008 @ 7:05 pm
Hey Kyle,
Hallelujah is right! I can’t wait to be back there
And that’s so funny that you mentioned Sarah, because I was just looking on Chile’s craigslist a couple of days ago to see if there were any promising apartments on there, and I clicked on one that looked pretty cool, so I sent an email about it.. turns out it was Sarah’s! 
Thanks for mentioning to her that you know me, that definitely helps! Cuídate!!
Comment by Jessica — June 17, 2008 @ 8:10 pm
It’s so funny that you wrote about this because I just had a melt down about “nobody love me” last week to my husband! I can’t tell you how many times I’ve made plans and been stood up here. Mexicans just view that as ok, no explanation needed and they’ll act like nothing happened the next time the see you.
One of my friends had to tell his Mexican girlfriend that if she stood him up, in his culture it meant that she wasn’t interested in him and that if she was going to continue to do it, they were not going to be a couple.
Comment by mexpat — June 17, 2008 @ 8:46 pm
my husband travels to chile a lot. and says he has never seen something colder, unatractive, bad looking like chilean women are..
When he tries to lead conversation with them in a shop they do not respond.
All our male chilean friends are very nice and my husband says they would do anything to find european or americas girlfriends just not do marry or date those witches:))))
Comment by Anonymous — June 18, 2008 @ 1:25 am
At the risk of sounding sexist (or racist or any other politically incorrect term) I think relationships between women are complicated enough as it is without adding the additional baggage that come from interacting with a different culture.
In highschool I always had way less girlfriends than platonic boyfriends. There was always a competition/jelousy thing going on between girls at some point and throughout the years I kept in touch with VERY FEW of my g-friends. And I’m talking about my home country here.
When I studied in the US I stayed in the international dorms and met women from all over the world. I had a great time and still get the occasional email from a few of them, but funny enough, I never made any longlasting friendships (american girls included)….
It’s been six years since I moved to France, and I’ve still to meet one single REAL girlfriend.
Although I agree with Ritamae about needing AT LEAST 2 years before you even begin to integrate into a foreign culture, I think this rule doesn’t exactly apply with people, and more specifically other women: it either happens or it doesn’t. It’s not necesarily a question of time. Like with your chilean friend…. My best friends and I had an instant “click” which is not always the case and which I believe you can’t really force. Perhpas it’s simply because women tend to follow intuition and first impressions much more than men.
Or then again… perhaps it’s just me.
Fned.
Comment by Fned — June 18, 2008 @ 5:11 am
I agree with you! At least I agree about the chilean things you mention… I never was in the states.
) didn´t get the actual point here: its not that is hard for a foreigner to find people to be friends with… it´s that people say a lot “I´ll call you!”, “we have to hang out next weekend!”, etc… but they don´t mean it… it´s like a reflex or something… XD
I think Kristy (hi kristy!
But, as mamacitachilena also says, there´re honest people who won´t say that if they don´t mean it…
Paciencia, Kyle!
Comment by Irantzu — June 19, 2008 @ 9:25 pm
I wasn’t in Chile for very long but I did notice that Chileans kiss foreigner ass. I just remember I went to this place that hooks foreigners up with apartments and the girl was extremely nice to me and very rude to my chilean husband. he hates his own people and is much happier abroad. he said it is hard to make real friends there, even as a chilean.
Comment by kumichan83 — June 24, 2008 @ 10:08 am
Sorry about your experiences. It’s true, though: Chileans look friendly and act friendly but they are not. They usually don’t mean what they say.
As for me, I don’t bother. I just act like I feel: if I don’t like someone, I don’t waste anyone’s time pretending the opposite. And after being blown off a few times myself (by my very own friends many times), I have learned not to promise what I’m not really willing to deliver.
Here’s one Chilena who would gladly be your friend if you want, since I have already read most of your posts and truly enjoyed them.
Regards.
Comment by Florencia — June 24, 2008 @ 6:33 pm
“Is it because appearances are so important in Chile that you must act like the nicest person in the world even if you plan on crushing their hopes and feelings quietly and discretely later on…just so as not to appear like you’re a mean person?”
Sad but true…
Comment by j4ur14 — July 3, 2008 @ 9:51 am
oh super gringa su blog la lleva en mala
saludos
y busqueme en facebook
claude roubillie
bye aye
Comment by claude chili — July 12, 2008 @ 1:52 am