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August 19, 2008

Why are you so negative about Chile? If you don’t like Santiago, why do you stay? You should be more positive in your blog. Why don’t you make a list of the things you like about the country?

I’m not negative about Chile, I’m realistic. I’m not staying in Santiago — we’re saving up our money to take our round the world trip that does not end up back in this place. No, I will not make a list of things I like about the country. What am I going to do, fill it with a list of cheap fruits and veggies? I know some people thrive off of the little things, and I’m sure there are a hundred little things that I like about Chile. But, “YAY, I love cheap palta!” does not make up for that fact that a typical work week here is 50 hours + another 10 hours spent in transportation and I barely see my husband. “Mmmm, Sahne Nuss is my favorite chocolate in the world,”* doesn’t change the fact that the Chilean culture is a pessimistic one that has a way of getting me down. I have already written a post that addresses this, but I don’t like living here and I absolutely do not apologize for that.

I’ve made the best out of the situation and don’t get me wrong, I love my life. But, in general, the city of Santiago and the country of Chile do very little to enhance it. I don’t fault Chile for that. It’s not that this country’s fault that we’re not a good fit. We’re just not. This is one of those, “It’s not you, it’s me,” things, which is why I’m soon getting out of a bad relationship. I’m sure I’ll miss certain parts of my life here aside from the biggies — family and friends — but right now I’m looking ahead. I won’t say we’ll never be back here at some point in time, but at the moment this is not where S. and I see ourselves (and yes, he is just as anxious to get moving and get out as I am).

*I know some of you had these on your Why I Love Chile lists and I hope you realize I didn’t choose those as examples to poke fun. If I made a list those are actually things I would put on it.

PS. Several of you suggested that Chilean men (or foreign men for those people who want to participate in the topic writing) is too broad of a theme. Feel free to make other suggestions. If nobody comes up with anything — Chilean men it is. I actually like the idea of keeping the theme really broad, because I’m interested to see which direction people will take the subject. I think it will be boring if we all write on exactly the same topic. However, if the masses want a specific subject we should go for it. Just come up with one and decide in the comments!

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18 Comments

  1. This is so well said. I think there is a common misconception that when a person lives abroad, even if they don’t like it at first they will learn to love it.

    I’ve accepted the fact that Brazil is not my favorite place in the world.

    I’m one where the little things do make me happy, but I focus on those because if I didn’t I would go crazy. They don’t make me love this place or make up for what I truly love in other places.

    I appreciate your honesty. It is what makes your blog so interesting.

    Comment by Lori - Blondie in Brazil — August 19, 2008 @ 12:39 am

  2. I really love your point about something silly and nondescript that is a plus for you …not being able to wipe out the harsh, deeper realities of a place. Very good way to state it!

    On the other subject…I think that a good topic is interracial marriage/relationships…can’t you tell that I am so trying to butt in here? Though if the majority still wish to blog solely about Chilean men—I will read them with pleasure. BUT I may claim that Edgard is Chilean. From northern Chile…EXTREME north…you know—that obscure part called chilexico ;)

    Comment by Rachel — August 19, 2008 @ 2:19 am

  3. I find that Americans as a whole are a fairly optimistic bunch. When confronted with a fatalistic culture whose people don’t trust each other, of course you are going to have a problem with it! And your blog can hardly be called negative- you should see all the blogs inspired by hatred of Washington, D.C., where I have lived for almost ten years now. In your reference to Katina in an earlier post, are you talking about Katina who just graduated from Hofstra Law? If so, she’s my friend’s friend. Can you post another link to her blog? Thanks for the info re: Tampa- my Mom just visited Ybor City and can’t say enough about it.

    Comment by Magnifique — August 19, 2008 @ 5:23 am

  4. I have thought about it and I have many different things I can write about Chilean men, I could probably write something different everyday for a week about it. I think that is a good topic to start with.

    Comment by Shannon — August 19, 2008 @ 7:57 am

  5. mmmm sahne nuss chocolate and cheap produce, lol. I am a fan of instant gratification. Food for me plays a super duper important role in happiness. Even though many things about Japan irk me, the food alone makes it feel like home. You are what you eat after all. I can understand why you don’t like Santiago but quit dissin on the foodies!

    Comment by kumichan83 — August 19, 2008 @ 10:23 am

  6. Kyle, I definitely would disagree that your blog is negative- in fact, I think it’s quite funny most of the time…anyways, i will go ahead and write about Chilean men- after thinking about it, you’re probably right- better to keep the topic broad. Is the idea that we all write something in our own blogs?

    On a separate note: Is this Magnifique Frank’s friend from Georgetown?!??!!? If so, yes, I know you- I’m Katina – who graduated from Cardozo law school (not Hofstra) – Frank and I were summer associates together!!! I have added 6 Inch Heels to my blog list. What are you doing reading Chile blogs? Why don’t you two head down here for a visit!

    Comment by nyGRINGAinCHILE — August 19, 2008 @ 11:10 am

  7. I think that the fact that you’re planning an “around the world” trip, is in itself as “unrealistic” as they come. It’s not your fault. I’m sure like most American girls (Yes, I mean you reading this right now!), you were raised thinking that you deserve the elusive “Charmed life” as much as the next girl. I mean, how could you not? I have sisters who were raised with the same type of unrealistic, mind warping “Disney Princesses” as practically every other girl in the US, not to mention the sense of entitlement that imbues every aspect of our culture. We get so caught up in the fantasy world that we’ve created for ourselves, that any little American worth their salt has long since lost any site of what reality really is. This is fine as long as we’re safe inside our quaint little houses on our tree lined cul-de-sac’s back home, but as soon as we start to travel, this attitude doesn’t do us any favors.

    I don’t think any of us who have asked you to be less negative are asking you to love Chile, but rather every once in a while, write about those things that you do love about it. We know that you can do it, because you’ve done it before. I think for the most part your readers visit your blog because we like your take on the things that most of us are already familiar with. Don’t feed us the typical bullshit about long work hours, tough commutes or how dirty the air is. We can get that over at Chilenos blog.

    That being said, you asked for our opinions in your survey and it seems that their were enough people who expressed interest in hearing more positive stories that you felt the need to address it. So instead of taking it as a criticism, by defending yourself with sarcasm, maybe you should take it as a challenge to find more things you do love, because remember, this is your husbands country your talking about. And because your relatively newly-weds, and because he seems like a saint, he “grins an bears”, but don’t expect all that grinning to last forever. I don’t think you’d appreciate that sort of un-ending criticism coming from S. toward the good ol’ US of A.

    Comment by Vinko — August 19, 2008 @ 12:18 pm

  8. “write about those things that you do love about it. We know that you can do it, because you’ve done it before.”

    Exactly. This blog is not that negative to begin with. There were three people who mentioned negativity. Therefore I thought it fit to address the subject, but the tone in which I write will not be changing. There were over twenty people who mentioned shorter posts and posting with more frequency. So that, on the other hand, will be changing. I’m doing my best to make this blog a good read for the people who keep coming back, yet stay true to myself.

    S. critiques this country more than I do. Yes, he’s Chilean, but he’s well aware of the flaws of his country. We don’t sit at home and dwell on what we hate about Chile. Nor do I do that on this blog, which is why I felt the need to defend myself against the three of you who said I am too negative.

    And how is taking a round the world trip unrealistic?

    Comment by Mamacita Chilena — August 19, 2008 @ 12:57 pm

  9. Maybe a trip around the world is unrealistic if you expect it to appear out of thin air. However, when you have your nose to the grindstone every day working your butt off for it… that’s a different story!

    P.s. when I said update more, I was kidding. I was just kidding you since I know you write like 30 blog posts per day. :)

    Comment by Amanda — August 19, 2008 @ 2:06 pm

  10. I’m sure like most American girls (Yes, I mean you reading this right now!), you were raised thinking that you deserve the elusive “Charmed life” as much as the next girl. I mean, how could you not?

    I know you don’t know me, but this is an incorrect assumption. From what I’ve read about Kyle it’s incorrect as well. She works hard for what she has. I don’t get the impression that she is expecting a charmed life in Chile.

    My parents never raised me with the idea that anyone owed me anything. I learned that the only way to really have anything is to work for it. I admit I never starved, but that’s because I knew that if I worked I’d have enough money for the basics. If anything, I was charmed because there were an abundance of jobs available and I was willing to do menial tasks. But I don’t think that’s what you mean when you say American girls lead a charmed life.

    Comment by Ordinary Girl — August 19, 2008 @ 2:24 pm

  11. Hijole, vinko…your comment just about sent me over the edge. You must not be American nor have spent much time here because you’re a bit confused about the people who make up this country. You are making a huge generalization about what America is. Have you decided that white, middle-class women are the sum total of this country?

    Well, you say our culture…so you must be American. I’m American and I work with people every day who have never seen a cul-de-sac, much less lived on one. How dare you make assumptions like you’ve made?

    Practically every girl raised in the US? Pues, mis huevos (the proverbial ones, not the literal ones).

    And, hells yeah I deserve a charmed life. Every single person on this planet does…but the problem is most people don’t even get a shot at one.

    I remember a privilege meme floating around a while back and this was my response to it (which starts somewhere in the middle of the post): http://gabachayucateca.wordpress.com/2008/03/27/overcast-overwhelmed-and-weepy/

    By the way, the kid who I started the post writing about had his older bro shot and murdered in April. He’s also got an American sister…do ya think that she has a “Disney Princess” fantasy in her head as she learns to live with one less in her family because of some beef with other Americans?

    Comment by gabachayucateca — August 19, 2008 @ 3:10 pm

  12. WOOOOW vinko my friend, talk about a blood-boiling post. So let me join the greek chorus here.

    First. You don’t know Kyle. I don’t know Kyle, either. Why don’t we make a pact, then, to not be so arrogant as to think that we can see deep into some stranger’s innermost lenses and perceptions of the world…..through the INTERNET?!?!

    Second. What exactly do you know about American women, for that matter? There are quite a lot of them, if you didn’t notice. I’m sure you’ve dated a few, if you’re from there, and most likely have some relatives and friends. Your comments reflect more on yourself than on me or any of the other self sufficient, strong ladies on whom you are throwing your pretentious ideas. If YOU choose to surround yourself with entitled princesses who expect the seas to part because they want to get to the mall…well, brother, that’s your choice, and don’t throw your grievances on other people.

    Third. So, American men who live on cul-de-sacs aren’t entitled, whiny rich kids? Can I point you to F. Scott Fitzgerald, Ernest Hemingway, or Brett Easton Ellis for some “extra reading” (just to START, for goodness sake)? Can we just say that anyone who is as sheltered as you claim American Women Are….is bound to be a prig?

    Four. Any woman or man living abroad….from any country, in any country….has to be incredibly self sufficient and strong every single day because they have placed themselves (or been placed) in a world where the rules they learned don’t apply. This works if you’re from the US moving to Chile….or if you’re a refugee moving to the US. It’s not about privilege. It’s about a paradigm shift that sometimes doesn’t suit, even if you are grateful for what it has given you, and even if (like me) you love where you are.

    Alright. Calming down. No more blog-based sparring for me.

    Ok. Chilean men for the multi-blog blog. I don’t know that many but I’ll try and come up with something that doesn’t make me sound like everything I just argued against in terms of generalizations, ha.

    Comment by Meredith — August 19, 2008 @ 4:14 pm

  13. Just to get things straight, I am an American, born and raised. My mothers is American and so is my father, in fact the only person in my life who isn’t American is my wife, and she’s Chilean, hence my being on this blog in the first place.

    When I say entitlement, I don’t mean class, race or color nor I’m not speaking directly to middle-class white women, in fact I’m going to expand my generalization to include all Americans (* and legal residents.). Now, before you go flaming me some more, I don’t mean this as a criticism. It’s what we are as Americans. This sense of entitlement is what has gotten us to where we are as a country. It’s also the method that allow less fortunate people to become more fortunate, dare I say its “The American Dream”. It’s when we leave the US that we get ourselves into trouble, in fact the TSA should require us all to surrender our “American Dream” at the boarder, because it does us no good outside the US.

    Now, I apologies that I’ve offended some of you, and in no way did I mean to suggest that Kyle isn’t a hard worker. I also don’t pretend to be able to see through her “innermost lenses” or to know her complete perceptions of the world. All I have to go on is what she post on the Internet, and if what she says it true, then why shouldn’t I believe her.

    My only point is that we as Americans have a tendency to measure the rest of the world with a ruler that make no sense outside of our country. Our tendency to do this, can alienate the people we live among, not to mention our spouses and friends. I just hope that we don’t fall in to the stereotype that the rest of the world has placed on us.

    C-H-I…

    Comment by Vinko — August 19, 2008 @ 7:32 pm

  14. I have to weigh in here. I don’t see your blog as negative, I see it as realistic. Hey, I love living in Mexico and I still have issues, I don’t think it does anyone any good to say things like “oh, you’ll just pick up Spanish, don’t worry”. Or you can live on half of what you did NOB or anything like that.
    I also see your goal to go around the world as reachable since you are actively saving for it, and have a job that is portable, so you will still have income while traveling.
    It is not news to write about people who are quietly making do and saving money, it is news to write about people who overextended themselves and bought too much house for their income.
    When I was younger I owned and lived in a rundown cabin, one of my co-workers who along with his wife made at least 3 times what I earned, was lamenting that he could never afford a house. I mentioned that the cabin across from mine was for sale and it was in perfect shape. His answer was that his wife would not be willing to move there even temporarily. I sold my place for 3 times what I paid for it and used that money to buy a house in town. I am sure that my co-worker is still renting.
    I wanted something and figured out a way to get it, my co-worker wasn’t willing to give anything up even temporarily.
    I think most dreams are achievable but you have to have a plan.
    regards,
    Theresa

    Comment by Theresa in Mèrida — August 20, 2008 @ 4:07 pm

  15. Vinko, you’re last paragraph about not measuring the rest of the world by the same stick we use inside our country is totally legit. However, when you say that you didn’t mean to imply that I don’t work hard — well, calling me an American princess certainly implies that.

    Amanda, true. We’re definitely working our butts off so we can take this trip! Can’t wait until it lands us in Austin :)

    O.G. agreed completely. Sounds like we had pretty similar upbringings. I too works lots of menial job — newspaper route, hardware store, waitressing. No shame in that!

    Gaba, I really liked what you wrote in your post about how YES, ever kid does deserve a charmed life if that means parents who believe in him/her and respect him/her.

    Meredith, your whole comment was so great and funny!
    “If YOU choose to surround yourself with entitled princesses who expect the seas to part because they want to get to the mall…well, brother, that’s your choice, and don’t throw your grievances on other people.”

    That part slayed me!!!Thanks for sticking up for me. :)

    Theresa, isn’t it amazing how people have grandiose dreams, yet expect they won’t have to do anything special to achieve them? Sadly your coworker has still probably never realized that with a little extra sacrifice and work he most likely would be able to achieve what he wants. But you’re the one laughing all the way to the bank. :)

    Comment by Mamacita Chilena — August 20, 2008 @ 4:55 pm

  16. Vinko,

    I’m glad you clarified what you meant. I agree with you, K. having been raised a U.S. citizen was / is privileged. We do live in a great country where, as warped as it may seem, the idea of the American Dream, if you work hard you can do anything you put your mind to.

    As the person having raised K. and her brother almost single handedly I would say that she was in fact very privileged.

    Privileged to be raised by a single parent who provided for her and her brother on a single income with not much additional or regular income from the ex.

    Privileged because although I was only one parent, I was stable and she was brough up in a stable and loving environment.

    Privileged because I have a college education and therefore better job opportunities which equated to decent wages and health care benefits.

    Privileged because she had a warm cozy house to come home to while many latch key kids didn’t even have that.

    Privileged because the modest ranch house she lived in was big enough to hold love and laughter and lots of freinds and sleep overs.

    Privileged because even being one of the few “have-not” families in a school district of “haves” we really did have plenty albeit generic groceries and non-name-brand clothes.

    Privileged because the school system she progressed through was one of the best in the area (I did my research before buying an affordable house) had dedicated staff and was not fraught with inner-city public school problems.

    Privileged because although I never owned a new car until 1.5 years ago, the gently pre-owned vehicles we suffered with got us successfully from point A to point B although sometimes with no heat and never with cruise control or air conditioning.

    Privileged because I owned a crock-pot and once in a while that delicious smell was wafting from our house.

    Privileged because I believed in developing my childrens’ interests by giving them opportunites to participate in music and sports and other areas because I believed doing that was a better investment in their future than owning material possessions (yes, that was a concsious choice and I was lucky to be able to make it.)

    Privileged because having been an exchange student at the age of 16 myself and having worked my way into a position in international business, I wanted to foster my childrens’ understanding of different cultures and broaden their horizens by allowing them to also participate in similiar travel / study abroad programs.

    Lucky because being the first born she was in a position to be the responsible over-achiever.

    Lucky because she basically disciplined herself. (A nurturer I am. A disciplinarian I am not.)

    Lucky because there was a paper-route opening in our neighborhood, babysitting opporunities galore and plenty of minimum wage jobs to choose from when she reached the age of 16.

    Lucky because she has strong self- esteem and knows what she wants, makes plans, makes sacrifices and wise decisions and figures out how to get it.

    O.K. I know I’ve gone on long enough and everyone gets the picture. Yes she was brought up in a very affluent country and even being considered middle class or lower middle class in the U.S. equates to a much higher level in other countries. But most of us here work for our “privileges” and yes we may have that feeling of “entitlement” that if we work hard for something we are “entitled” to it. It may not always be like this. The U.S. can not reign as a super power forever and eventually a different country (China??) will reign. But I believe this “entitlement” only becomes negative if we forget our humble roots, otherwise it seems to be an example (for right, wrong or indiffernt) that people of other countries envy and/or try to emulate or learn so that they too can improve their lifestyles in hopes that the next generation will be better off than they were. As long as materialism doesn’t become all consuming, is it wrong to believe that anything is possible if it gives us hope and ambition to do and achieve things in this world for the pure enjoyment of it? And I still don’t understand (at all) why you think a trip around the world would be unrealistic?

    I will now get off my soap box.

    Comment by Ritamae — August 20, 2008 @ 6:58 pm

  17. Ritamae:

    I appreciate your comments and in no way was I trying to offend anyone, let alone the parent of the person I was commenting on, so again I apologies.
    I don’t fault anyone for taking advantage of the opportunities that we do enjoy living in the United States, and as a parent myself I strive to provide my children with every opportunity that they can possible take advantage of. I respect the role of a single mother and the difficulty that it brings to raising children. My mother raised my brother,sister and me as a single mother. My wife was a single mother before I married her, so I know first hand the opposition that is presents and the effort made to teach us what we need to know to be the kinds of people they hope we’ll become.
    I can see (starting a few flames back) that I may have said things that we’re taken out of their intended context.
    I was trying to speak to what a few of us (3 as it seems) perceived as some negativity peeking out in K’s posts towards what might be considered reality for millions of people in Chile. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think that her blog is consistently negative, however we as readers were asked to voice our opinion about what she could do to make her blog better. When she decided that the only thing worth mentioning was “cheap fruits and veggies” or chocolate bars then thats where I take issue. I know those things aren’t the only thing good about Chile and maybe, just maybe there were some unfair comparisons going on.

    When I had the opportunity to live in Chile I witnessed first had the unintended arrogance that we as Americans sometime have towards countries and cultures that aren’t our own. For example, I once overheard a group of Americans damning Chile because of a power outage, when they knew full well that power outages aren’t unique to Chile nor are they unheard of in our “1st world” United States. Or take me for example, I felt that I had the right to just walk right into a Chilean police station without getting permission from the guard first (By the way, don’t do this.). But because of my arrogance and the fact that I felt as an American certain rules or customs didn’t apply to me, I was taught a lesson. Nothing harsh, because luckily we have the magic phrase “No Hablar Espanol!” (Which has also gotten me out of a ticket a time or two.). I think in general, Chileans are just as proud of their country as many Americans are of the United States. The only problem is that when confronted by our overwhelming patriotism Chileans tend to lack a leg to stand on because of what they perceive America to be especially given movies and marketing coming from our country. These criticisms either alienate them or breed resentment, but either way they cut just as deep as they would for us to hear them.

    I think this dead horse has been sufficiently beaten, unless somebody has something else to say, cause I’ve got more where that came from:).

    As far as an “around the world” trip. What are we talkin’ here? Will there be cruising on the oceans? Backpack europe? Are you staying in hostels,or hotels? Are you going to work along the way or just stay a few days here and there? You’ve got a means of income on the road, but what about S.? There are a lot of factors that I can think of that would make this realistic or not.

    Well, I’m off. My wife has just gone in to labor….. :|

    Comment by Vinko — August 21, 2008 @ 12:23 am

  18. Vinko – It’s hard for me to understand your investment in Kyle’s around-the-world trip. Are you going, too?

    Comment by cavils in chile — August 22, 2008 @ 6:45 am

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