Kyle Hepp

69 Comments

1. 

   Wow! That made my day!

   Comment by Robespierre — April 11, 2009 @ 4:06 pm

   Reply
2. 

   I’m with Robespierre! Nuff said!

   Comment by Gabriel Morty Ortega — April 11, 2009 @ 4:31 pm

   Reply
3. 

   Carlos – that was kinda like reading about London vs rest of England. How do you compare England to Chile?.

   (and for the Scottish readers, yes I am including scotland as part of england because you are so rude to the english(only the males tho’ – the scottish females are perfectly polite)

   Comment by Anonymous — April 11, 2009 @ 4:58 pm

   Reply
4. 

   @Anonymous: I met once a Chilean friend of mine and her husband (a Londoner) in Liverpool. We opened a map in the city centre, one guy came out of the blue to give us directions. Same thing with my gf once in Manchester. What I mean is that people in the north are known for being tough but there’s something polite and nice about them. In the south of Chile people are kind of nice but are really shy. You can open a map and nobody’s gonna help you.

   England, or Britain actually, was in the past a world power and ruled the world. Today, if my dog is not in the backyard the British may rule my backyard. Today they rule nothing and it shows. It’s a country with a long and important history, in that sense only rivaled by France.

   Chile for long has been a backward place, we haven’t given anything remarkable to the world, apart from some notable writers and a few artists, but nothing that has happened in Chile has had any impact anywhere. So I cannot really compare both.

   Something I found really really impressive was the British Museum. Needless to say, some of the world heritage is safely stored there, and free access to the public. But equally nice was the museums I saw in Manchester or Liverpool, with all the history of the working class during the 19th century and the Industrial Revolution, stuff like that.

   I just don’t see anything interesting in the rest of Chile. The hiking trails in Patagonia are great, but mainly Chile’s attractions are not man made, they are simply natural wonders, and not always that impressive as the Chileans think.

   Perhaps I’m biased. History is one of my hobbies, so I tend to like countries with history. Chile is a newish country, and I think it is stupid the way chileans show contempt for their own history. So to sum up, England (Britain) has given great scientits, thinkers, musicians and has influenced and even shaped the world. And I see they want to preserve history, and Chile doesn’t have any of that.

   About similarities, there’s something miserable about Chileans and British, I mean about the way they live. Both share a negative outlook on life.

   In France I went to a rock concert people were queing to order a drink. People go back home quietly. In Britan and in Chile the alcohol-fueled culture and binge drinking is revolting. Fights after a night out are frightening, and everywhere. I don’t know exactly what it is but looks like both people can’t have fun unless they get pissed. I have seen women puking in the street and falling on their own pool of sick. We celebrate 18th of September in Chile the same way, and we’re so pathetic we think it is great. I have been to so many St Patrick’s celebrations and I’m done with them.

   The food in England is a disgrace, but the international restaurants are fantastic, especially Indian. In Chile we have a bbq, which is no rocket science. And that’s about it. Some restaurants now are good and less pricey, but unfortunately eating out is still expensive for the majority of people. In provinces, no offense, there’s nothing. While in England you still find great places out of London, and obviously because it’s a country with higher disposable income. No need to explain about eating in France, which is something that changed me forever. And I don’t mean posh Michelin-starred restaurants, I mean a small bistrot anywhere in France can give you fucking great food, and I mean it could be just the ultimate fucking great culinary experience. In England and Chile you just don’t find any of this.

   Having a sandwich at your desk in England and Chile is normal. I just realised that we eat like barbarians.

   Apart from history, and related to it, I like painting. Somehow, in Chile you have to be very careful to whom you mention this otherwise you come across as an arrogant pretentious twat. And the same with the British. There’s a lot of inbelievably idotic people, the sort of tabloid readers. There’s a strong and pervasive celebrity culture, and in Chile is a new trend and is getting stronger.

   Oh, and new, recent similarity now: cops are equally brutal.

   (that was a long answer, I got carried away!)

   Comment by Carlos — April 11, 2009 @ 6:39 pm

   Reply
5. 

   Gabriel Morty – “And no, Carlos, I didn’t grow up in some green-fielded mountain pasture, raising dairy cows and frollicking like Heidi in a dress”

   I’m sorry but this absolutely had me in stitches!Good posts!

   Comment by Girl.Meets.Chile — April 12, 2009 @ 5:42 am

   Reply
6. 

   Carlos – I was not aware that Chile had the awful binge drinking culture of the UK, I thought it was a British-thing. With the food though, I have to admit it is fantastic to be able to find vegetarian food so easily in England. Other countries just don’t have vegetarian marked food. And Psceiementpototnos, I dont think europeans are racist, everybody is capable of being just as racist as each other.

   Comment by Anonymous — April 12, 2009 @ 5:42 am

   Reply
7. 

   Anonymous: the bbq culture is rooted in Chile and being vegeterian is really odd. But then again, Argentina has a similar bbq culture and as far as I can see, most vegeterians have a wide variety of options there. It is a very anglo-saxon thing to be vegeterian, perhaps related to the mad cow disease and foot&mouth outbreakes etc. Of all French friends of my gf, and her family, I've not met a single vegetarian yet.

   I know I keep comparing countries to France but I find it useful for comparison. For me is the second country I know best.

   The binge-drinking in Chile is, on top of it, related to complete drink and drive irresponsibility. You tell Chileans about a designated driver and things like that and they laugh.

   @Psycho-metódos: The difference is that I'm intelligent enough to tell if a given individual is an idiot or not, and I don't take it from there to call everyone else an idiot in that specific country. Even though the French have no problems with the Spanish or any other country, if I see one insulting them, I won't be so silly to think that all people are like that. Not even the majority. What you’re doing is known as ‘generalisation’, to draw a conclusion from specific cases for more general cases. But in your case your generalisation is flawed, and so it is a hideous generalisation.

   I can say that Chileans are football-crazed people because I have met many football-crazed people. That’s alright. I have met many, many Chileans who think the Peruvians are like the untouchables, so I can say that most Chileans still don’t know how to treat people from other countries and are usually driven by stereotypes, and they are a fairly racist country. This is a correct generalisation.

   Yes I was speaking from my own experience, and so because generally I’m reasonably polite to people I have not been mistreated. Try and understand this.

   Ask yourself why you found so many rude and ignorant people. Maybe cause you drove them up the wall? Perhaps you’re like one of those Chileans who get all homesick and annoyed because they can’t eat empanadas and can’t drink pisco. And no, there’s no cazuela either. And by the way, don’t put mayonaise on that weón.

   Certainly, the French are not overtly welcoming, they are not warm people, they don’t make friends easily. But I really think you’re wrong, and unfair. You’re confusing the Gallic froideur with racism. You’re insulting a lot of people with such statements.

   Comment by Carlos — April 12, 2009 @ 8:06 am

   Reply
8. 

   Good topic Kyle. I totally agree with the difference between the Chilean city people “todos juntos”, and Chileans city people on an individual level-and I think you can add on the level of smaller groups.

   In the following I’m only talking about urban Chileans…

   They are very different from Americans. I’m more likely to strike up a conversation with a random American than with a random Chilean. –Except for Chilean jotes who always want to strike up a convo–. I also trust random gringos more than I trust random Chileans.

   I think the flipside is that Americans are really friendly with each other, but sometimes I feel groups of Americans lack the “acogedor-ness” of smaller Chilean groups. I can’t explain it but it’s an impression I get. So on a societal level, Americans are easier to hang out with, but on a smaller group level, I really like to hang with both groups, but I absolutely love how I feel “acogida” by the Chileans, and not just because I’m a gringa. They do it with each other too.

   I’ve loved the convo between Carlos and Psicometodos and Gabriel.

   I’ve often been annoyed by people who just generally say “Chile is 10 years behind.” Ten years behind what? So first of all they aren’t even considering the rest of the world when they say this. As if Europe and the States were the only other parts of planet Earth.

   In some cases, okay, it might be true that Chile is ten years behind Europe/the USA, because sometimes they implement something in Chile that has already been in the States or Europe for awhile. Like a sweet highway. Chilean infrastructure is getting better all the time… In 1997 there was a two lane highway between Santiago and Valpo and it was full of potholes. Now they have quite the highway to replace it. So that could be an example of “having been behind.” But I shy away from using this expression. I guess the education here could be better…like in the States and Europe…so that’s an instance when you could compare. But Chile faces different challenges, so I think its really unfair to put Chile down as a country (as many do, tantos chilenos como ajuerinos) always comparing it to Europe and the States. It’s unrealistic, idealistic and perfectionist.

   But reading Carlos’s comments, I really got that Carlos doesn’t like Chile. That’s clear. He just doesn’t like the country. And there are many Chileans who just don’t like their country. They prefer other places. And I find that totally valid. By the way Carlos, you didn’t mention Rapa Nui. What are your thoughts on this island? hehe.

   The post and comments are great. What a fun piece to read.

   Comment by Maeskizzle — April 12, 2009 @ 10:07 am

   Reply
9. 

   @Psicomentodos Re-read your comments and you will see that you are not only a racist, but a homophobic fascist who fails to see any of his own faults. This is a discussion about Chile and different cultures and not a place for insults.

   Comment by Anonymous — April 12, 2009 @ 2:01 pm

   Reply
10. 

    Maeskizzle: I haven’t been to Easter Island (Rapa Nui) and I really doub’t I’ll go there. The natives devastated their own island, never created a culture, and if they did, they can’t even tell how come they invented the moais statues. I believe the Anakena beach there is bad. So to be perfectly honest, I won’t go.

    Psycho-métodos: you’re comments are so vile, you don’t deserve a reply.

    I can only say that homopohobia is an extended problem in Chile. This fanaticism, this idiocy is a very Chilean thing.

    A university professor once told me, literally, ‘London is such a disgusting place, you can see men kissing on the streets’. Bigotry and intolerance unfortunately are everywhere.

    Well, these are the Chileans. These are my country fellows, my compatriots.

    At a societal level, Chile is not an inclusive place. It is no country for the ones who want to be creative, or different, or want to pursue their own lifestyle. It’s no place to say ‘I beg to differ’.

    And at an individual level, there are great people, but there are great people in many countries. There are unfortunately too many bigots in Chile, more than in other places. I mean the ratio of clever people to bigots in Chile is lower than in more enlightened countries.

    I don’t care about your ad hominem remarks. I’m not taking any of them.

    Comment by Carlos — April 12, 2009 @ 3:02 pm

    Reply
11. 

    Psychomanotopssos (who doesnt show its profile), I am afraid you are the coward and you are obviously a fucknut with ‘issues’ so I can not converse with you any more, go and try and argue with someone else you racist homophobic fascist.

    Comment by Anonymous — April 12, 2009 @ 5:14 pm

    Reply
12. 

    Kyle, I think unfortunately in your post you’ve kinda wound a couple different issues into one where its hard to agree or disagree with one element wihtout knowing how much influence that has on the issue as a whole…. especially since half the comments flung off on wild tangents I have no idea where I’m at now.

    but overall on the chileans as a group vs. chileans on an individual level… well i wish that were the magic answer to making everything seem better! and in theory i’d like to agree… but that hasn’t been my experience, and many of the chileans i have come to know on a personal, connected level and in small group situations haven’t seemed much different from the line-budding, sidewalk pushing, often rude disconocido on the street. I love the theory and have heard many people say similar things but unfortunately you’d catch me in a lie just trying to please chilean readers if i were to actually agree that it’s all better on a personal level.

    (i don’t think it matters that im not in santiago, i actually think that works in favor of my statement as half of everybody claim “you’ve gotta get out of santiago and it will all be different”. or perhaps i’m just not far enough)

    Comment by lydia — April 12, 2009 @ 10:30 pm

    Reply
13. 

    What’s funny is that every one seems to be commenting based on their own experience (they’re the first ones to say it!) and I agree… in a way it rejoins what Kyle said in her initial post: it’s easy to generalize but it’s not exactly fair to do so because there is no norm.

    I have lived in France for 7 years and I have smiled at some of the things that have been said by Carlos and Psicometodos and Anonymous (among the others) because they are so true, but I have also shaken my head at each one of them at some point during this whole conversation because I have lived through anecdotes that are exactly the opposite of what they claim.

    I have lived in Mexico City and I have been to Santiago and I am partly American.

    So how does this shape my perception of these countries or any other for that matter?

    It doesn’t.

    I can’t.

    I wouldn’t dare.

    Because, the world is far too diverse, far too wide, far too different to be able to conveniently be tagged and neatly labeled.

    When we say “The French…. ” what French are we talking about? The old generation that lived through WWII? The “Prof generation” that lived through May 68? The De Gaulle generation? The Miterrand generation? The Bronzés generation? I ask because each of these generations will present a picture of “The French” that is completely different… Or then, are we talking about the French that have visited the Louvre and and read Jaurès and eat at Bistrots…. if so, are we sure these are the REAL french?

    Perhaps they are, because they are the French that we have MET while we have lived in France… perhaps they aren’t because they may not represent the majority of the french of our times anymore… perhaps they wont be because a new generation is coming behind us that might change that….

    So is it possible that the same thing could happen in Chile? Or in Mexico?

    That the perceptions we each have a country and its people are based solely on the people and experiences we’ve had while being in that place, be it by having grown up there, by living there as an expat, or by simply having travelled through it?

    I guess most of you will agree this is so, it sounds pretty logic to me in any case.

    What’s more complicated though is figuring out what happens while we’re NOT there.

    Because 7 years of living in France means 7 years of NO LONGER living in Mexico. But IT DOESN’T mean that Mexico has not changed in 7 years.

    So should I still be able to claim that I can tell you what the Mexicans would do in such and such situation? Would I still be able to proclaim with authority that Mexicans are/do/make/feel/think…. etc?

    As I said before, I can’t… I wont… I don’t dare.

    Fned.

    Comment by Fned — April 13, 2009 @ 8:54 am

    Reply
14. 

    Lydia, Kyle has picked a topic that is hard to write about, and probably hasn’t been written about much. That’s partly why its hard to do. It’s also a generalization, and only a generalization, not a physical law like gravity. Generalizations always have exceptions.

    Fned, you make a good point that culture changes when we are out of our own culture, and we aren’t as in touch with it as we would be if we were still living there. At least that’s what I think you were saying. And that personal experiences are very subjective and limited to a small period in history.

    But if we can’t make generalizations about nations and their cultures (which perhaps we can’t), then does culture exist?

    I’ve studied travel writing and read a particularly interesting theoretical book written by Siobhan Shilton, Charles Forsdick and Feroza Basu. I believe it was Shilton who said that we tend to see culture as a monolithic, autonomous entity when it really isn’t. Her suggestion is that culture is like a mosaic, having its bigger characteristics/or generalizations but that the idea of “culture” also includes its differences and variations.

    She also goes on to state that when we begin to question the concepts of culture and identity, both become unstable.

    I do believe in being careful when generalizing about culture, but I do it because I think you can. I agree with Kyle on her generalization, at least with regards to Chilean urbanites. They aren’t all rude, but I’ve had lots of experiences with rudeness in Santiago especially. And I don’t think it’s totally bad either. As someone else said, at least its honest. hahaha. But I do think there’s a point where it goes to far. But whatever. In the end, I choose where I live.

    Comment by Maeskizzle — April 13, 2009 @ 9:56 am

    Reply
15. 

    for what its worth, my comment was not an attack on kyle’s writing, simply pointing out that the broad range of factors involved, and examples and anecdotes in the comments that from the beginning it seemed people were arguing points that, in the end, may or may not have anything to do with the individual vs. collective thing (the essence of the post) and that’s ok, but-
    i was just pointing it out that because i found myself thinking “oh yeah I agree with that point…maybe i guess i do agree more with this theory than i thought” until i would realize that “that point” wasn’t really an important factor in the theory.

    Comment by lydia — April 13, 2009 @ 1:03 pm

    Reply
16. 

    Ding, ding, ding! Psicometodos wins the award for “best statement of the obvious” as well as “best reading comprehension”. Kyle has said repeatedly that she will leave soon to go on a trip around the world – are you just reminding us of that? Or are you trying to suggest that it in some way makes her observations less valid? I don’t really understand the point of your comment.

    Fned, really interesting points. All of this is swirling around in my mind and making me think about things…we’ll see when/if a post of my own comes of it. Thanks for the inspiration, guys!

    Comment by Emily — April 14, 2009 @ 10:35 am

    Reply
17. 

    Hi, I found your post interesting because here in Ecuador I face a similar situation.

    I actually wrote a post about it a few months ago:

    http://www.livinginloja.com/2008/12/being-polite.html

    Comment by Lori — April 16, 2009 @ 10:11 am

    Reply
18. 

    Oh I wish I had time to read all these comments.

    I definitely met unkind people in Chile – R’s sister in law being numero uno – as I did in China and as I have here (throughout my life) in good old Inglaterra. From my experience it’s not so much that individuals are nicer than the society composed of them (this rather reminds me of the ‘black people are bad except my mate’ theme that was so prevalent in England in my teenage years) simply that, on so many levels, Chile is a bloody impossibly tough country for foreigners (well UK/US ones anyway) to live in. China was a doddle in comparison and who’d've imagined that? Just look at the blogs on Chile (mine, yours and many others) that can run and run and run talking about if the Chileans are this or that or not. I never felt like writing more than a couple of posts like that on the Chinese. It seems like living in Chile is so irritating to some foreigners (me as number 1 on the list) in one form or another that it takes over being able to get on with your normal life.

    Oh and on the subject of Chilean husbands, I’ve recently come to realise that R is Chilean to the core (of course) and that it’s only because he always replied to my emails promptly, unlike almost any other Chilean, and agreed to do things my way (rather than the Chilean way) that made me think otherwise. In fact, him being that contradictory character of a ‘macho but wife-obeying’ Chilean husband has simply been him being his most Chilean all along. Which I’m very glad of….

    Comment by Raybelles — April 17, 2009 @ 5:18 am

    Reply
19. 

    I've just been blog surfing and came across this great post and amazing comment section. My blog has never seen more than 15 comments so I'm quite impressed! I'm an American expat living in China. My husband is from Spain. (Yes, that rude country! The funny thing is the Spanish will all laugh & agree with the rude title. They could care less. I personally see some things they do as rude and others not.) I think that this idea of individual actions vs. societal actions is universal to all cultures. I could rewrite your post substituting Chinese and it would most definitely be valid!

    Comment by globalgal — April 20, 2009 @ 8:59 am

    Reply