Fotografo de Bodas, Santiago

April 19, 2010

This post goes hand in hand with what I wrote the other day — worrying about culture shock in both countries, both homes. This post is about culture shock within a relationship. I’m not talking about big stuff like babies and gender roles and all that really hard stuff. I’m talking about the little things — ie. getting hot and heavy in the Chilean metro, without any grumpy old man yelling gruffly, “HEY! You kids need to get a room!!!” like in the U.S.

And yes, blog readers. I’m switching topics again. I know the focus has been all about wedding photography lately. I also know that there are two distinctly different groups of followers, including one set that wants to read about Chile, not look at pictures of pretty people getting married. For the next couple months I’ll still be posting sessions and weddings as I do them. But, the pace is slowing down. So for better or for worse, you’ll be getting lots more about life in Chile.

Back to the subject at hand — cultural differences.

If I were Dorothy, I wouldn’t be able to click my ruby red slippers because I don’t know where home is or will be. So…there’s no place like with Seba? Doesn’t have quite the same ring to it. When talking about where we’ll be in the next 5 or 10 years, the subject of kids always comes up. I feel semi-confident that someday I will have the desire to have kids, even though I’m completely lacking in the maternal department right now. So when we’re discussing, Chile vs. the U.S. vs. Anywhere Else, I can’t help but wonder — how will we teach them?

Kids, especially when they’re little, don’t understand greys. There’s black. Or there’s white. And Seba and I disagree on what’s black and what’s white in a few key areas.

For example — how many continents are there? For real? Because Seba thinks there are 5. Whereas, I, on the other hand, know there are 7. Yes, I’m a fun person to be married to. When I drive, I head check (as in, physically turn my head for a millisecond to glance behind me) my blind spot to make sure I can merge or change lanes. He swears they don’t do that in Chile and that head checking is asking to get into a crash.

And for the real point of contention, I lived my life in Michigan — going outside in grade school after swim class with wet hair, in snowy winters so cold, I could break chunks of my frozen locks off. I would do this while licking icicles, probably made from yellow snow. I did not catch pneumonia or most of the time, even a cold. Whereas Seba and his family swear, for the love of all that is holy, if I go outside without blow drying my hair I will fall ill AND IT WILL BE FATAL. Heaven forbid I’m also barefoot while I have wet air and am outside. That is BEGGING the grim reaper to come impale me with his spear of morbidity — or however he takes the living.

Point being — when we have children, how many continents are there? When they’re learning how to drive, do they head check or not? And if they go outside with wet hair (even in the summer!!!), will they DIE?

Annje, how do you do it? Other Chilean/Gringo peeps — how will you do it?

How much would YOU listen to this guy?

PS. That’s Seba working hard on Andrea’s wedding day. And no, we don’t wear jeans to wedding. She got ready in Santiago then we all drove out to the venue and changed.

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I'm a TOTAL head checker!!!

Comment by Bobby Earle — April 20, 2010 @ 6:50 am

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hahahaha! This post is hilarious – and dont worry – you have readers like me who want pretty pictures of people getting married AND stories about expat life (although you are more of an international woman than an expat!)

I often think of these things as well and it is difficult, but then I always cross paths with amazing family after amazing family that have children that go back and forth between US and country X, that are completely bilingual, that know they wont die with wet hair (but dry it anyways to keep dad sane) and KNOW that there are 7 continents

Comment by alessandracastillo — April 20, 2010 @ 1:05 pm

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This is an issue that lives within couples of the same culture, as well. Trust me.

Your child will be a magical combination of both of you. You just hope that you are guiding them to be a positive force that will make the world a better place because of how you raised them. It won't matter if they believe the wet hair = death scenario or if they roll their eyes with you behind Seba's back over the whole thing. They will pick up some of you and some of Seba and some of their very own beliefs and ways. All that will matter is that they have two amazing parents who continually model for them what it means to make a positive impact on the world. And that their parents love them unconditionally. And their home is wherever their parents are – which ever of the 5-7 continents that may be.

Comment by capturinglife — April 20, 2010 @ 1:37 pm

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There are seven continents and don't let anyone tell you any different. However, I have no idea how many planets there are. Pluto got downgraded, didn't it? And isn't there some other planet called Xena? It's too confusing.

Comment by Jennette — April 20, 2010 @ 2:00 pm

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Hahaha! My husband and I have had the same discussion about checking blind spots. I was flabbergasted that they don't learn that in driver's ed in Chile, there is NO other way to see that spot and I have been saved many times by loking even when I thought I was clear (but it explains a lot about the driving there haha). As for the continents, it is actually a toss-up. it all depends on how you classify continents (populated, land mass surrounded by water etc.). I have always learned that there are 7, but the olympic flag, for example, has five circles, one for each continent, I think classified by how many land masses are populated. Other methods use some kind of plate system. I am not an expert so I can't remember all the details.

As for how to do it with kids, you make damn sure that you are the one that tells them how it is FIRST, so that they can never tell you “nuh-huh, Papi said it is this way.” Besides that, I think our kids are going to be lucky, I wasn't introduced to the concept “it's all relative (not ALL, obviously, but you know) until I was 20 and out of the country for the first time. Our kids will grow up understanding linguisitic and cultural nuances.

As for the bare-feet (andas a pata pelada!?!?!?!?) wet-hair, die of pneumonia, I intend to ignore it until they stop saying it–that'll work won't it? Thanks for the link

Comment by annje — April 20, 2010 @ 2:57 pm

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I have had that very same discussion about the continents with Daniel! lol

While each person comes into a relationship with their own cultural baggage and ideas of how the universe should operate, in the end, the benefits of exposure to another perspective on life are worth the headaches that occur when you don't always see eye to eye on things. In terms of raising children, surely there's a certain degree of compromise that goes into the whole parenting gig, so you'll just have one more layer of cultural differences to hammer out on top of everything else! I'm sure you and Seba will be wildly successful on that front.

Comment by Katie — April 20, 2010 @ 3:58 pm

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OMG the wet hair and bare feet thing! So it's universal! Recently we had my husband's mother and sister staying with us at our house in the US, and everyone except me was sick. Of course the first time they saw me leaving for work with wet hair I got the speech, and I got to do my own speech (which I'd practiced in my head, waiting for this moment). I pointed at each one of them and said “Enfermo, enferma enferma.” Then I pointed at myself and said “No enferma. Voy a seguir mi proprios consejos.” It was glorious!!! The best part was that I never got sick.

Comment by flojindamesa — April 20, 2010 @ 4:58 pm

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Francisca knows that she won't die if she walks around with patas pelÃ¡ in my house. The shoes and socks fly off. Why it's different? Well, in my house, we've got warm floors. That's the explanation.

Comment by amanda — April 20, 2010 @ 5:12 pm

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what are the 5 continents? where did the other 2 go? I have to agree with your husband, head check while driving is asking for a crash.

I have two boys and right now we are in Chile and watching my wife have the kids wear three layers and still she wants to take the winter jacket with her when she goes out during the day (one day 2 weeks ago) kills me. I think Chileans must all have been dressed in too many layers growing up as kids so they never got used to mild/cool temperatures. Which for a country without central heat is confusing. Growing up in new england taught me really cold temperatures and how to savor those spring days when the temp broke into the 50s, and ditch the coat and sweaters……..the hard part about having an idea contrary to the Chilean way, while living in Chile is that I am always out numbered, so I do not bother making fights about the excess clothing……plus I figure on keeping my objections for those times when it is really important, when it will not matter if I am out numbered….

Comment by Rook — April 20, 2010 @ 6:30 pm

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Ro and I have been talking about this too because he wants us to be ready to have a baby next year. (I am ready now, if I had a million dollars I would keep my husband in bed all day everyday until I was prego ) He knows how I feel on issues like wet hair, bare feet, and giving infants soda, potato chips, and tea. He knows that I will let my children run around with wet hair and barefeet. We have been together for 3 years and finally his mom is getting over trying to make me dry my hair and wear shoes at all times. He actually thinks that I know best, and oh it is great!!! I have more experience with children than he does, so I am hoping he just goes along with my way. Of course I will have to just nod my head and smile when his mom tries to tell me that I am doing everything wrong, but its my child, I will do things my way. Rodrigo trusts that I know what I am doing and I know that he will help get him mom off my back about things. I think no matter how it goes, its not going to be easy trying to get both cultures into one kid.

Comment by Shannon — April 20, 2010 @ 8:11 pm

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Kyle, it's simple. We're right, the Chileans are wrong. Duh.

Comment by Andrea Gonzalez — April 20, 2010 @ 8:24 pm

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Five continents eh? NO HEAD CHECK – apparently they are teaching kids in Australia now NOT to do it. They used to learn to head check and now they don't.

Here's my real continent question, which one is russia in?

Also – Inspector Climate and I have one real point of difference when it comes to child raising (which is awkward, because I am fairly certain I don't want to be a momma) and that is in Australia it's common to dole out smacks to children. Um, yeah. I think violence is bad. period.

Comment by Decoybetty — April 20, 2010 @ 8:29 pm

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I think kids are brought up with parents from different cultures are so lucky. They get to learn two languages, and they are taught at a very young age that the world is not black and white. I think this is such an important concept to learn and itÂ´s something that not everybody ends up learning. Another bonus is that wherever they are, theyÂ´ll get to brag to all their friends that they have a gringa mom or a Chilean dad ha ha! I remember when I was young all my friends thought I was so cool that I could speak a different language and had parents who were from a different country who had cool accents! Man kids are so easily amused ha ha!

Comment by gringagonesouth — April 20, 2010 @ 8:59 pm

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The secret is to use the phrase “Some people believe…”, eg “Some people believe there are 5 continents. Of course, mummy knows best”.

My mum does the wet hair thing. Drives me insane. She also tells my children that if they accidently swallow their snot (as 2 and 4 yr olds are prone to do, as they don't 'get' the blowing the nose thing), it'll “Sit on their chest and make them ill” – I had to point out that their oesophagi lead to their stomachs, not their lungs.

So these things aren't just cultural – they're generational as well. R had some odd views before we had kids. He's since learned that, where the kids are concerned, I'm (mostly) always right.

Comment by elizaclaire — April 20, 2010 @ 9:34 pm

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There are FIVE continents, have you ever seen the olympic flag? It has 5 circles 1 for each continent.

Comment by Bazinga — April 20, 2010 @ 9:38 pm

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In the U.S., children are taught that North (English and French plus other european countries, cold and mid climate, hot only in the south), Central ( Spanish and French, high temperatures and moisture) and South America (Spanish and Portuguese, hot climates, cold only in the south of Argentina and Chile) are three different continents. The criteria is simple, the three geographical zones have different cultural backgrounds, and different climates. The strange thing is, they donÂ´t use the same criteria for upper Saharian Africa(muslims,desert, etc) and Sub Saharian Africa (multicultural, jungle, etc) , North Asia (like Siberia), East Asia (China, Japan, Korea), and South Asia (India, Malaysia, etc).
This reminds me a conversation I had with a gringo friend “…and where`s America?”, “In America, off course… oh wait, in North America” “So, America is in North America, go figure…” (We were all drunk, and just talking nonsense, but it was interesting, anyway)

Comment by I_Marmo_I — April 20, 2010 @ 10:20 pm

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I think I was taught 6 continents – Africa, Americas, Asia, Australasia and Antarctica. So perhaps you're all wrong… This would also explain the 5 olympic rings – 5 inhabited continents where the Olympic ideals are upheld.

Comment by elizaclaire — April 20, 2010 @ 10:23 pm

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Head-checking is so dangerous..! If you just lean forward a tiny bit and look in your mirror, you eliminate the blind spot and you can still see ahead whilst you're doing it…

But ignore everything else he tells you

Comment by Matt77 — April 20, 2010 @ 11:47 pm

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Kyle, when you do decide to have children…just move to one of the two continents that don't exist.

Comment by Kai Heeringa — April 21, 2010 @ 1:25 am

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Oh yes… I remember when my boyfriend saw me driving for the first time in the US. He wouldn't shut up about it (the lane changing head thingy too, he thought I could do it 100% with mirrors) and when we met up with a mutual friend of ours in Austin, our friend was like “You know, some women drive here…” We've also argued about all those things you mentioned. The worst part is that when we argue he thinks he's right, and I think I'm right so we pout for a while and then chalk it up to those “cultural differences” Oh and another big one, is I have this tendency to ask obvious questions for clarification purposes. I know other women from the US who do it too. He can't understand it and thinks that I just don't understand the Spanish. Annoying. Yes, however can we have kids someday? They will be so confused.

*been having trouble posting comments the last few times*

Comment by Sara B — April 21, 2010 @ 1:55 am

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So I was all ready to write a witty and clever response, but then I read the others that beat me to it! My ex, the Aussie, and I had the SAME disagreements. From a doctor's pov I think it's best to keep your neck and feet covered during the cold weather, but wet hair is okay. There are SO 5 continents, grrrrrr!!!

Girl you and Seba are going to have an incredible family.

Comment by GlobalButterfly — April 21, 2010 @ 3:27 am

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Ditto. It's inevitable! How else do you drive?!?

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:05 am

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I'm not going to lie Alessandra, that does make me feel a LOT better. I'm constantly stressing about trying to keep both groups of blog readers happy so it makes me feel good to know that some readers fall into both groups. Thank goodness!

And yes, I know lots of international, amazing families…I still stress about it, but you're right. If they can make it work, we should all be able to!

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:06 am

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I never thought about that same issue existing within couples of the same culture, but obviously you're right. I'm silly sometimes, and like all human beings, get wrapped up in thinking that my problems are unique to me!

I hope that our kids feel like I do, that home is wherever the love is — aka, where Seba is for me, right now, and I suppose when little Seba Jr. and god forbid, Kyle Jr. come along, they'll feel at home wherever we are.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:07 am

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Can we have a fist fight with Seba about this in Nashville? I promise I'll side with you no matter how many planets you decide there are.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:08 am

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Good advice — whoever says it first. I will take that to heart. And I'm more of a talker than Seba, so pretty sure that will be easy I hope to be like you and have kids that understand cultural and linguistic nuances, but it still makes me nervous. That's a HUGE responsibility.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:09 am

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Apparently all of us expats have had that same continent discussion. Oddly enough, I thought it was just something weird they learned in Seba's strangely Catholic (no idea why that has anything to do with anything) school. I never bothered to double check the topic with anybody else.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:10 am

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NOOOOOO, you did NOT do/say that!!! You just lived my DREAM.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:11 am

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Whether I put shoes on or not, in Chile, once a year, without fail, I get tonsilitis. My doctor explains it as different germs. To me that makes more sense than pata pelada or not!

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:11 am

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I've never crashed. My husband has. Nanner nanner boo boo J/K. I think as long as you're careful, both ways are fine.

And yes, I have seen little babies, in the summer time, completely swaddled, sweating and screaming. I want to say to the parents, “Take off a few of their layers, stop making it suffer!” But of course, I don't.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:13 am

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I've been with Seba for almost six and I don't think that his parents will ever stop freaking out about me not blow drying my hair (I never do it) and walking around bare foot (always). I have learned to just smile and nod, classic gringa move.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:14 am

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Haha, that's what I thought. That's why we're friends

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:14 am

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Agree about the child raising conversation being awkward when you're not sure about the whole ummm, giving birth to a child thing. I mostly think hypothetically because I do believe that some day it may happen — if by accident or by peer pressure, who knows. This just makes me all the more interested in continuing to follow your blog. So yes, please blog about not wanting children and discussing that with Inspector Climate. Thanks

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:15 am

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That's true, I think it would be cool for kids to feel like they're parents are special. And I'm not going to lie, growing up I ALWAYS wished that my parents had been able to teach my to be bilingual in any other language!

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:16 am

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I actually think you just solved my problem. “Honey, listen. Mommy thinks there are 7 continents. Daddy thinks there are 5. But our friend, Eliza, says there's 6. Let's all listen to her.” Haha, I'm totally doing that! Don't think I'm joking. And I'm mailing the munchkins to you when they have questions!

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:17 am

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The Olympic flag is not the bible or ruler of the earth. In fact, the Olympics are OLD.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:18 am

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I actually had no idea that's why we were taught that there are 7 different continents. I can't remember that far back to grade school. But now, when I look on a map, it's so ingrained in my head, that I SEE 7 different continents. Trying to think that there are 5 doesn't make sense to me, no matter how I try to rationalize it!

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:19 am

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I don't think it's dangerous at all if you do it properly. I have also never looked into head checking accidents in the U.S. versus in other non-head checking countries though.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:20 am

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Your. Advice. WINS.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:20 am

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I hate chalking things up to cultural differences. That doesn't resolve anything, it just makes me mad!

Can you email me telling me what exactly the comment problem has been and what browser you're using, if the problem persists? Thanks, Sara!

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:21 am

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I'm telling you, the people that read this blog are smart and give good advice. I've proven it time and time again.

Comment by kylehepp — April 21, 2010 @ 7:22 am

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I'm from the US too…We're not taught that Central America is a continent! The US version is: North America (Canada, US, Mexico), South America (everything south of Mexico), Europe, Asia, Australasia, Africa, Antarctica.

Very funny post, Kyle, laughed out loud at the wet hair thing….I'd forgotten about those battles! I remember once being sick, and I had to wait until my host mother was in the kitchen cooking to DASH into the bathroom for a shower. As soon as she heard me in there she started yelling through the door for me to come out. It really did feel like she thought I was literally committing suicide.

Comment by Meredith_H — April 21, 2010 @ 10:17 am

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Ok, S thinks there are 6 Americas, Europe, Asia, Africa, Antartica, Oceania and if I want to divide it into North America and South America I should also include Central America which would be 8. I think we both turned out ok one of us thinking there are 7 and the other 6 . I think my Chileno and his family are freakishly not Chilean in some ways. When I asked him about checking his blind spot he replied “I was taught to check the rearview mirror every 7 secs and the side mirrors every minute or so.” He took a drivers ed class in Chile but he said most people don't take it. Maybe that is the difference- in Chile there are classroom educated and non-classroom educated drivers whereas in the US the class is mandatory. Maybe the non-educated drivers have made up their own set of rules . They probably think you shouldn't drive with wet hair either or you will crash. Another example of being non-Chilean is that my mother in law never dries her hair. She always goes out with it wet. S actually told me a new one I hadn't heard on the blog here is that Chilean women would say taht you are not supposed to wash your hair during your period- GROSS.

Comment by Aimee — April 21, 2010 @ 11:50 am

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I love this post and now that I saw that Kai got “best comment”, I will not try to upstage him (because you and I both know I could …) But I will say thing … jeans at wedding. You'd be surprised how many photographers do that. Even good ones. Unbelievable.

Comment by kayleyheeringa — April 21, 2010 @ 1:46 pm

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Hey Kyle, it is not that I do anything special, really, as far as teaching nuances, though I am sure it will come up when they are older, it's just that bicultural/bilingual kids grow up just knowing that there is more than one way to say things and more than one way of doing things and I think that is a bonus–there is no downside to me. Having kids is a big responsibility, but so is everything else involved in being an adult. But it seems way bigger thinking about it beforehand and before you are ready. When you are ready, it won't seem like that big of a deal and you'll see that how many contintents they will think there are, isn't even a worry that crosses your mind. But the wet-hair barefeet comments will always be annoying

Comment by annje — April 21, 2010 @ 1:52 pm

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I re-read the post and I am confused as to what S is pointing out. Is he saying to not check the blind spot at all or use the mirror instead of turning your head? I agree with S if he is saying to use your side mirrors to check for the blind spot instead of turning your head. It is much easier and more reliable to do that as long as you have your mirrors set. This reminds me of a story my drivers-ed teacher told us. An older lady came to him saying that people would flip her off all the time while she was driving and she had no idea why. He took her out for a drive and she swiched lanes on the highway. He asked “Did you check your blind spot?” to which she replied “What blind spot?”.

Comment by Aimee — April 21, 2010 @ 3:15 pm

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Your post cracked me up. It was way better than a simple “I told you so.”

Comment by Ritamae39 — April 21, 2010 @ 4:16 pm

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You know I tried for a while but I was lazy as it took way too much effort on my part since I'm not native . . . so that's why I sent you to Chile at 13! It was the next best thing I'd say even if you didn't come out of the bedroom for your first 2 days.

Comment by Ritamae39 — April 21, 2010 @ 4:19 pm

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Cultural differences? Try this: Basque girl moves to London, stays there for 10 years and meets British-South African boy who has also been in London for another 10 years. Neither of them feels particularly attached to their country of origin, but they don't like England much either. What do they do? They decide to move to Chile! We get to eat interesting stuff… On a serious note, I find both of your cultural issues posts really interesting, I have no clue where home is anymore but it doesn't bother me much (most of the time).

Comment by AnnaLondon — April 21, 2010 @ 7:24 pm

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This post made me think about a quote I read recently from Roberto BolaÃ±o, en exiled Chilean writer, about his “patria.” In his opinion, his children became him homeland…

“Mi Ãºnica patria son mis dos hijos, Lautaro y Alexandra. Y tal vez, pero en segundo plano, algunos instantes, algunas calles, algunos rostros o escenas o libros que estÃ¡n dentro de mÃ y que algÃºn dÃa olvidarÃ©, que es lo mejor que uno puede hacer con la patria.”

Food for thought

Comment by asuhey — April 21, 2010 @ 7:35 pm

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